# 388

Posted: 07/10/2009 20:53

This is good;-) I strongly agree with the poll above! About time it starts to happen!!

# 387

Posted: 18/07/2009 19:55

Billybob,

Thanks....will be goin' to the doc to sort it out. u stay safe n happy.... be in touch.

# 386

Posted: 16/07/2009 18:51

Hi Brandy,

Don't be worrying about showing your anger on this site. I find it therapeutic to let it all out here. Helps in the short term. Can understand your angry from what you've just posted. Worrying when these are supposed to be the experts. Can you get a second opinion anywhere else? If you haven't already.

I do hope things work out for you and you get a proper diagnosis soon. Shouldn't be any messing around this sort of thing. Hopefully the negative result will be correct! I wish you well.

# 385

Posted: 16/07/2009 00:42

Hi all,

Buzz I thought of my own parents when you mentioned how happily married your own parents are.  Don't get me wrong, my own parents are very happy together and love each other dearly BUT if you were an innocent bystander who happended to be in our house and didn't know their ways you'd think they hated each other.  The stories I could tell............ and usually people end up splitting their sides laughing.  Constant bickering and giving out about one another and snapping at one another......it's hilarious.......but only because we know that's their way.  They couldn't do without one another really.  My father has a fear of flying so my mother goes away with her sisters or my sisters and me da does be lost without her.  When we call over he lets on that all is fine but you can tell when talking on the phone.  Not surprising after 40 odd years. 

# 384

Posted: 15/07/2009 18:57

Billybob,

sorry.....ment to say I'm v/glad you and your friend have grown stronger in your relationship....great to hear.

Was a bit angry n self-absorbed in last post....forgot bout my 'helper' (thare's always somebody worse off!)....stay well n safe.

# 383

Posted: 15/07/2009 18:48

billybob,

Thanks....well, have 1 report (+picture) of a growth....and a 2d report of no evidence of growth....makes you wonder what's goin' on wouldn't it?

Not goin' ta let it go at that.....2d 'visit' was very 'suspicious'....took 3 times longer...seemed as if the procedure was an 'obstruction' on the 'private' considerations....if you know what I mean ???

Can tell you....if I'm being 'p*ssed about' they picked on the wrong person....I'll camp outside the Min's private house and get arrested....too many kids have lost parents because of that kinda crap....I won't go down easy !!  Thanks again.

Anonymous....if you have a comp n access to internet....'google'  'liveline' n you'll eventually get to podcasts of programmes.  Let's know how you go.

# 382

Posted: 15/07/2009 08:52

Chris,

Thanks Brandy . . . but here comes an embarrassing confession . . . I don't actually own an ipod/MP3 player.

# 381

Posted: 14/07/2009 17:16

Hi Brandy,

Doing well thanks. You are correct, my friend is very ashamed of his actions but is certainly making up for it given his current outlook on life! And yes our friendship is much stronger today.

Didn't catch the liveline programme but I rarely listen to the radio. Must check it out, thanks.

Hope things are going well for you in life and with the doctor.

# 380

Posted: 14/07/2009 16:40

Anonymous,

Still haven't been able to read the articles....only thing I can suggest is if you 'podcast' Liveline the last few days.....it was v/interesting today aswell....one of the contributors was apparently one of the main speakers at the gay pride march; apparently he uses an alter ego (female) to get his point across.  Sorry I can't give you more info......try 'podcasting' Liveline if you can.

buzz,

Funny....I, myself, expected those 'bible-bashers' to be prominent on the programme....but thankfully they were'nt.....now, that could be a 'programme' director's initiative....but I'd like to think it was because we are more considerate now...and most people are 'amenable' to acceptance/change.  See your point anyway.

Billybob,

How you gettin' on....let us know!

# 379

Posted: 14/07/2009 13:53

Chris

A number of centuries ago, marriage could certainly be seen as a form of slavery, but ANY long term relationship - be it marriage or partnership, cannot by definition be a healthy one if it is unequal or based on inequality and it sounds, not to be personal about it or anything, that if your (or anyone's) relationship is akin to slavery, then in order for it to happy and lasting, something needs to be done to tackle that inequality. I'm not sure if I have the right article but if it;s the one in the times online, I only got to the line which said :"homosexuals are entirely free to marry. They just can’t marry someone of the same sex. None of us can, because, whatever the resulting union might be, marriage it ain’t" before I got annoyed not only at how ridicuous it is but frankly how insultin it iis - and that's just insulting to human intelligence for a start. Telling a homosexiual petson that they are free to mary someone of the oppostive sex is as utterly useless as telling me, were the situation rwversed, that I am free to marry another woman. Ah sure amybe I'm only annoying myself by taking any notice of such journalistic ****-stiring

# 378

Posted: 14/07/2009 10:06

Hi brandy I tend not to listen to such "car crash" shows as they tend to attract the "anti" nazis (or worse the "I dont have a problem with X BUT....") What was it like? No doubt the usual Bible bashers crawled out of the woodwork to puff out their chests and judge others?! :)

Hi Chris good points in your last post, indeed I never USED to be opposed to the idea of marriage, and now I think the reason I see it as a form of slavery is because I see my OWN relationship as a form of slavery on some level and so I equate the two. Of course for those who are happy together then yes marriage is a blessing, and I know many people (my own parents for example are over 30 years "going strong"!)

# 377

Posted: 14/07/2009 09:54

Chris

Alas No Brandy. We have no radio on in the office. Could you give us a 'summary' so to speak of what went on. Would you know which paper had the Brenda Power article on it? I would love to read that.

# 376

Posted: 13/07/2009 15:02

Lo folks,

just been listening to 'liveline' on radio.  Very good discussion related to the topic.  Some very 'animated' and interesting viewpoints....and reactions to Brenda Power's articles in some 'paper (I didn't read them).

Just wondering did any one listen to the program...and/or read the articles??

# 375

Posted: 13/07/2009 14:08

Chris

I think it was a teacher I had in primary school, who said it but I remember the exprression. For every one finger you point at others, there are three pointing back at you! The decison to or not to have a child is very personal one, I believe. And like marriage I suppoise, it's isn't always fro everyone. Peronally, I believe that people who are totally anti-this that or the other either don't have the life-xperience to understand that there are other viewpoints (innocent, of you like) or who's experience has lead them to be so close minded as to incapable of understands others' points of view.

# 374

Posted: 11/07/2009 17:45

What wonderful lovely posts from you all; and if any one reading them had any doubt about the topic...then they surely should have no doubts now !

I wish I could give you all a great big hug....you're fantastic !

Billybob, you're not waffling....you're just 'speaking' honestly....and that's just what we need on this site.  I found it fantastic to hear about your friend who seemed to almost do a '180' on his previous 'beliefs' ! 

I think he 'lost the plot' because he felt he would lose you as a friend....and he was angry...because he was ashamed....do you think?  Dunno...you know best....but anyway....has your friendship grown much stronger since?  Hope so...let's know how yer goin' ok?

Thanks to all....still 'under' the doc....but sure posts like the above always lift you a bit... thanks again.

# 373

Posted: 10/07/2009 11:58

Hi Brandy hope you are on the mend? Thankfully I wasnt around in the seventies so I never experienced  that level of homophobia but it's hard to believe people actually had that level of hatred...and thought it was justified!! very often, people who are staunchly anti this or anti that are trying to cover up their own insecurities and inadequacies. That old theory that if the finger is being pointed at someone else, at least its not pointing at me. I would love a child, but with a man, I would not like to turn a relationship into something that others see as a circus act. IVF, sperm donors I just would not be comfortable.

# 372

Posted: 10/07/2009 08:33

Chris

It's a serious topic I know Brandy but you made me smile this morning with comment about being 'under the doctor'. I had an elderly great-aunt who suffered with ill-health and used to say she had 'been in bed with the doctor'. She meant of course that she was in bed sick and the doctor had to attend but we thought the expression very funny when we were younger. I do hope you're feeling better tho'.

And I agree, I  hope we have evolved as a society into one that is open and caring.

# 371

Posted: 10/07/2009 01:20

Hi Buzz,

I didn't mention that my friends who are expecting are married.  That was the point of telling that and I completely left it out!  Speaking to my partner earlier who said that out friend was buying a house, had placed an offer.  His "hubby" doesn't work so it will really be my friend buying it.  And this is what gets to me.  My friend came into a lot of money and suddenly met this fella.  Within 2 months they had moved in together - all instigated by the other fella.  My partner and I were shocked to say the least as we'd been together 2 years at that point and couldn't have dreamed of living together.  My friend is such a gentle old soul but he's extremely vulnerable and very easily led.  Anywho they moved in together and then I stopped hearing from my friend.  If they're going away I'll get a call to mind the dog.  I have no problem doing this as the dog is a little dote and is a pleasure to be around.  Enjoy taking her out walking.

To cut a long story short.  My friends "husband" does not work yet goes away (by himself sometimes) about 7 times per year.  He doesn't work yet he spends €60 for a paper flower for the apartment or €1000 on a painting that really only belongs in a mansion, palace or museum.  Basically he enjoys the finer things in life but doesn't have the money to support it.  My friend on the other hand has a few hundered K................

I am very worried for my friend.  He's blinded by it all and can't see it.  I am certain that his "husband" simply sees a wallet that can support a certain lifestyle. I'm disgusted by it, highly suspicious of it and sitting back waiting for the s**t to hit the fan.  I can't say anything to my friend without the risk of losing him and given the committment they just made.......

Sigh........rather than say something and risk losing his friendship I've decided to sit back and wait until it goes belly up and be there for him then.  As much as I hope things work out I am rarely wrong with these sort of hunches.

Buzz I hope you will take heed of my post on that other thread.  You come across as a very intelligent and very decent person.  It's not surprising that you have panic attacks or are angry and snap at people.  You could be doing a hell of a lot worse so don't be worrying about that!  But you do need to decide what you want to do, and quick.  Whatever you're suffering now will become much worse if you don't deal with the source of the problem.  I understand how difficult it is but you must think of your own peace of mind before you think of anyone elses.  You are the most important person in your world Buzz and you need to look after yourself.  I hope things work out for you.

# 370

Posted: 09/07/2009 21:49

Hi Brandy,

I only "come out" to whom I consider are very good friends (and my family of course).  The hardest to tell was a very good friend of mine who had admitted to "queer bashing" in his youth.  Now when I told this fella he lost the plot -  because I'd left it so long to tell him!  not because I was gay - this is the person I mentioned in an earlier post who thanked me for changing his perception of gay people.  He has a lot of guilt over the "queer bashings" and does regret them.  He's actually turned into one of the most caring people I've ever met who would anything for his friends and family.  He admitted to me that gay people made him uncomfortable - after I came out I didn't change a bit.  I'm still straight acting and as much a "man" as anyone else out there.  Before me his experience of gay people had always been stereotypical gays, i.e. camp, outrageous, bitchy etc.  Graham Norton, Julian Clarey and so on (though I did find Julian Clarey hilarious).  He actually thought all gay people were like that!  Now he's one of the most open minded people I know.  I can still feel quite uncomfortable discussing the fact I'm gay in front of people I haven't told as it's something I only disclose to people who are important to me.  Now this friend of mine eats the head off me when I get like that telling me who gives a f**k and just to be yourself.  Amazing really the change.  Like I said he always thanks me for this and is extremely tolerant towards everything and everyone nowadays.  Not sure why I'm saying all this.  Waffling again......sorry.......I'm sure you're all used to my waffles by now 

# 369

Posted: 09/07/2009 09:01

Chris

Hi Buzz, sure we are capable of carrying out so many of life's functions alone and there are many commitments to divide our time over but marriage / long term partnership is one of those things and if anything, for me at any rate, my concern would be that other things would take up too much of my time that my marriage would suffer. I have chosen marriage to be my primary adult relationship, as has my husband and hence we devote resources, such as time, energy commitment etc to it. But that's just our choice and not neccessarily for everyone but at the same time I believe every couple should have a choice to get married if they wish, regardless of their gender.

I am sorry tho' to hear you're not having a happy time on a personal relationship level. While everyone has their foibles in relationships, a controlling one, in my own personal opinion is not healthy - for either party. That's not to say that it cannot be resolved and people cannot make an effort to change - if both parties want that. Would you consider couples counselling. As far as I know, even one party can go to relationship counselling if the other is not willoing to - but ultimately I believe it takes both and the commitment of both. Hope things improve for you soon.

# 368

Posted: 09/07/2009 09:00

Hi Buzz, sure we are capable of carrying out so many of life's functions alone and there are many commitments to divide our time over but marriage / long term partnership is one of those things and if anything, for me at any rate, my concern would be that other things would take up too much of my time that my marriage would suffer. I have chosen marriage to be my primary adult relationship, as has my husband and hence we devote resources, such as time, energy commitment etc to it. But that's just our choice and not neccessarily for everyone but at the same time I believe every couple should have a choice to get married if they wish, regardless of their gender.

I am sorry tho' to hear you're not having a happy time on a personal relationship level. While everyone has their foibles in relationships, a controlling one, in my own personal opinion is not healthy - for either party. That's not to say that it cannot be resolved and people cannot make an effort to change - if both parties want that. Would you consider couples counselling. As far as I know, even one party can go to relationship counselling if the other is not willoing to - but ultimately I believe it takes both and the commitment of both. Hope things improve for you soon.

# 367

Posted: 08/07/2009 17:37

Sorry folks....been 'under the doctor' for a few days.  Anyway, have to say that many posts are encouraging.....and almost everyone I've spoken to....agrees that children have as much chance (if not more) of being nurtured, lovingly and correctly by a gay/lesbian couple.

Hope we've moved on from many years ago:  I distinctly remember a 'human' on a bus in the early '70s....'boasting' to his friends that he had gone 'queer' bashing at the week-end !!!

Please,please...let's hope we've developed as a society....beyond such hateful, idiotic approaches to 'different' people !!

Thanks for your posts.

# 366

Posted: 08/07/2009 12:17

Chris

Hi Billybob, no I don't think you were offensive or standoffish, I was just interested to hear furhter about yoyur viewpoint. Thanks.

# 365

Posted: 07/07/2009 10:51

Hi Billybob this person does not sound nice at all, but I would not speak out against equal rights for straight people if ONE straight person gave me a bad exeprience. Although I believe that equal rights are important I share your sentiments re marriage. It would not be for me . We are born as individuals and are capable of carrying out all of life's functions alone (with the exception of pro creation of course) and there is fmaily, friends, jobs, careers etc so many things to divide our time over...and marriage (and long term relationships in general) take SO much of your time and invariably something else will suffer. Maybe it's because I am experiencing the true disgusting nature of a control freak at the mo, and that is why I am disheartened, but I agree with you completely I think marriage is not necessarily for everyone and while some people are happy together a lot of them end in divorce.

Congratualtions to your friends on their pregnancy. Children are such a blessing.

# 364

Posted: 07/07/2009 10:45

Hi Brandy very good points. I particularly like how you challenge the theory that gay people will raise gay children. This is proved to be utterly nonsensical in the fact that straight people raise straight AND gay children. If all children ended up the same sexual orientation as their parents then in fact there would not BE any gay people!

Also good point re "bits hanging out". I have seen so many people (and yes women tend to be the worst offenders) falling out of bikinis that are too small and exposing bare arses, g-strings etc on a saturday evening in town. Not a pretty sight!

# 363

Posted: 07/07/2009 09:44

Chris

Hi Brandy, I agree with much of what you say. Tho I do object to any child being referred to as 'ferile'. That surely is a discription we use for half-wild animials? Perhaps a description would be more fittingly applied to their parents, for their irresponsibility. I do recognise that it might not be all the parents fault that they are addicts - perhaps they had an iresponsible upbringing themselves.

Interesting point comparing homosexual men on the recent March (I didn't see it so I can't comment on whether it was the case but someone mentioned it) with drunken women - both of whom are exposing various parts. Perhaps what gets to people is that young women falling around exposing more perhaps that they normally would is seen as somehow as youthful accident given that they are drunk (at least I presume they are not doing it sober but I don't know) but men exposing the parts on the march is deliberate and therefore seen as making a statement - and a very obvious hard-to-miss statement at that. Just my tuppence worth.

Hi Billybob, given the break-ups you've seen I can understand your personal view of marriage. I have no problem at all with someone having oppostion to marriage on a personal basis or an ideological basis. That's totally understandable. What I do find objectionable however is people who oppose same-sex marriage alone (as a civil right) and usually they are unable to provide a logical explanation as to why. I can't speak for other people as to why they do it but we did because

1.) I wanted my partner to be my next of kin, not for any presumed romatic reason but for legal reasosn should anythig happen to me. This to me was a purely practical reason.

2.) We wanted children and quite simply it is, in Ireland, far better legally speaking if the parents are married to each other.

3.) With the above 2 in mind, we thought it would be very nice if we could have a day to celebrate the cementing of our relationship with the people who mean most to us - our families and friends.That was simply our motivation.

To be honest I don't blame you being suspicious if your friend is in a relationship where the other party is dictating what they'll do. That to me is a controlling relationship which by it's very nature is unequal. And I would say that regardless of the gender or sexuality of the couple or whether or not they were married. In that case I understand completely who your stance is as it as as regards their relationship and lobbying. Sadly their are couples like that all over, both male, female, married and unmarried, heterosexual and homosexual.

# 362

Posted: 06/07/2009 20:17

Hi Brandy,

I was the poster who mentioned the "bits" on display.  I'm actually gay myself so no children unfortunately (even though I have said I wouldn't approve of the poll I would love to be a dad - it would have to be my biological child though).  I do see your point regarding holidays etc.  My point was that I would hate to be in town with my 4 year old niece who was suddenly exposed to these "bits" (covered or not) and any subsequent questions which may follow when, at 4, she shouldn't have to ask such questions.

Hi Chris,

Having read my last post I feel I may have come off as defensive or standoffish - this was not my attention.  Apologies.

# 361

Posted: 06/07/2009 08:32

Chris

Oh Billybob, you are absolutely not alone there - I worked in a office for about 4 years with about a 50 / 50 gender split of colleagues, most in their late 20's early 30's and there always seemed to be someone getting married and the constant barrage of wedding talk seemed to me like it would do anyone's head in. You don't have to be anti-marriage for it to annoy you - I think you just have to be sane and normal not to want to listen to the same thing, morning, lunch and afternoon. I got married but I didn't have to turn it into some sort if incessant production and frankly I don't see the need for others getting marred to turn it into a drama either. I see your point tho about marriage in general. Fair play to your sister, if she's happy and they love one another that is what is important.

# 360

Posted: 05/07/2009 00:13

Hi Chris,

I suppose that's just how I am.  TBH I've seen so many of my old friends rush into marriages only for them not to work out after a number of kids and messy messy break ups which are sole destroying for children especially when the conflicting parties try to use the kids as pawns in some disgusting vendetta they set against each other and the continuous point scoring off one another.  It's soured me off marriage completely - gay or straight!  The one saving grace is my that I introduced my oldest freind in the world to a fella who was in my class in school.  That must be 17 years ago now.  This friend and I are friends since we were toddlers.  My parents was friends with her parents so we spent lots of time together.  Grew up best of friends and are still best of friends.  Fella in my class was into her, asked me to arrange a meeting with her.  She liked him and they're together ever since.  Have one beautiful daughter and another baby on the way which they've been trying very hard for for a number of years now.  I am so happy for them.  So while I know that some couples can be great together and live a lifetime of happiness together the bad relationships I see are more common and I just don't understand why people want to do it.

I'm quite suspicious of the motives of one of the people I mentioned in earlier posts.  Doesn't stop me being happy for them as they are happy but I can't help it.  I am suspicious by nature.  My friend was vulnerable when he met him (in a not so conventional way) after a family dispute.  They only knew each other a year when it happened.  Hardly ever hear from my friend now as the other fella dictates what they'll do.  I'm good for dog minding mind you when they want to go away!!!!!  But I love their dog so don't mind that. I also found out one day he had a temper at a house party some months ago!  Attacked my partner (verbally, but an attack nontheless).  I feel very uncomfortable around him and suspect he's using my partner who is quite wealthy.  So there you go.  That's why I disapprove of their "lobbying".  Hope this answers your question.  I also hate the thoughts of putting myself in the spotlight like that.  I'm quite a private person.

# 359

Posted: 03/07/2009 20:34

Such an emotive subject is bound to be 'exploding' with references/comparisons etc etc.  Just to put my 'tuppence' worth in:

1.  Since I'm agnostic...any reference to religion in this subject means nothing to me.

2.  Homosexuality has been referenced for thousands of years...so it's not as if we've only heard about it.

3.  The homosexuals I've come across (gay+lesbian)....have invariably been intelligent/witty....and if I was to choose an intelligent...harmless...fun night-out....I would say my preference would be for them!!

4.  Much of the 'anxst' against homosexuals is produced and promoted (wrongly) by certain areas of society...influenced by the church.   

5.  Much of the 'fear' is also fabricated.

6.  Does any one intelligently think that...with the super-knowledge society we have now....even children will not realise the real nature of society??

7.  With regard to adoption/fostering....ask yourselves this:  How many ferile children have you seen running around...growing up with no direction in this society...destined for a life of hardship/cruelty...or crime...'parented' by the 'normal' drunken...drug-ridden heterosexuals??? (I see them every day).

8.  Ask yourselves...given the historical records of homosexuality....who has been responsible for it's denigration?  think you'll find it has always been the religious/churches !!   Very strange that....if you examine the history of the Catholic Church....not to mention the latest revelations!

9.  Would heterosexual children be 'turned' into homosexuals if they were adopted by gay people?  I find it v/strange that I even have to say no;  more likely they would 'grow' in just as loving a family as a heterosexual family.  However...they also might be abused....just as many thousands have been for centuries...in 'normal' families. 

We have to approach this as sensible, sensitive humans, surely.  Some one mentioned gays with their 'bits' hanging out.....what do they think of their children observing 'women/girls' falling all over the place from Dublin to Santa Ponsa....with their bits hanging out??  Is that the kind of heterosexuality they want to instill in their children?  What is the difference??

# 358

Posted: 03/07/2009 17:35

Hi Billybob thanks for your reply and your honesty. It is refreshing to say the least. Yes I had to go, if you have had a look at the anxiety thread you will see why...I did not really have a choice! Anyway regards and hope the office situ improves for you after what I hope is a great weekend. Take care

# 357

Posted: 03/07/2009 09:00

Chris

Hi Billybob, I would be inbterested to know why you think lobbying for civil marriage rights for same-sex couples is, to put it is your own words - a bit much? If it is acceptable for them to get married in another country and live as a married couples here, why then is it not acceptable for them to marry here and enjoy the same rights as any other married couple?That seems to be rather like saying that it's acceptable for a black person to get their university degree aborad but a but a bit much for them to expect to be paid the same in industry here as a caucasian or asian person, is it not? Is it becuase, like Chi, you have a personal objection to civil marriage as an outmoded invention? Which is fair enough. Or is it some sort if ideological objection? I'd be be very interested.I mention civil marriage - i.e. marriage as a civil right first and foremost, rather than a religious ceremony, which of course is the couples and their chosen religions' own business.

Hi Chi, from the unfortunate experince of friends in parterships, I can assure you that break-up / seperation and the attendant ownership discussions are enormously stressful regardless of whether a person is married or not. With regard to wills, if you are in an (unmarried) partnership a will is actually far more important than it is when you are married - as with marriage, should one party die, the succession act takes preecedence in any case. Sadly it's not divorce which makes things worse but the break up itself. Divorce can be done in an amicable civilised manner or a very embittered argumentative manner but that depends on the break-up and preceedning marriage.

# 356

Posted: 02/07/2009 21:56

Hi Buzz,

Yes I see what you mean.  Perhaps you're right and I just don't approve.  I've always considered myself to be a very tolerant person with a live and let live attitude but have noticed in recent months that certain things can get to me.  I work in an office of 4 people - 2 of whom are getting married soon and 1 who is already married.  Day in day out I'm listening to nothing but talking about weddings and it's doing my head in.  I do protest (in case you think I overreact it goes on for the whole working day).  They think I'm anti marriage and I suppose I'd probably have to agree.  So it's not just gay marriages I oppose I suppose, but all marriages.  I don't see the point of it.  My sister is going out with her fella 20 odd years now, they don't feel the need to get married.  But I was delighted when my other sister got married.  It was fantastic to see how happy she was it actually brought me to tears.  She was happy so I was happy for her. 

Re the attire - I've seen some photos of the event and there were some blokes wearing skin tight shorts with more or less the entire package on display, nuts and bolts! Personally, I wouldn't like my young nieces to be in town and exposed to that.  Also noticed some in the S&M leather gear I've posted about previously albeit without the hairy a*se cheeks showing. 

Happy to hear alcohol wasn't allowed.  Consumption would inevitably lead to trouble with such a large crowd.  So you went to it?  After reading your posts last week I thought it would be the last place you'd go.  Hope you enjoyed, same to Chi.

# 355

Posted: 02/07/2009 09:33

Hi Billybob I respect your view and I thank you for taking the time to explain your post in a mature manner. I am curious as to why you think the lobbying is "a bit much" - gay activists do not lobby because they want to, they lobby because they feel they HAVE TO in order to bring about the changes which they pursue. Do you think that politicians lobbying pre-election is too much? What about the Ogoni 20 when Shell began it's path of destruction (and that is NOT a reference to the shell to sea campaign might I add!)? Do you think workers striking against cuts is "a bit much"? What about the women who put themsleves on the line throughout the years for equal rights, the right to vote etc etc?? You see what I mean? EVERYONE has their views and are entitled to them, but everyone also has their CAUSE, something that they believe in passinately and are willing to speak out and lobby for. To say something is "a bit much" seems to me that you either don't fully appreciate how seriously people take their cause, or you secretly just simply do not approve.

Re the point about little being worn, yes there were SOME people there who left little to the imagination, but then again I have seen kids as young as eight being brought to popstar concerts where the star in question wears the same if not less. This coupled with the fact that most of their songs revolve around sex, beauty and popularity, and the ever gyrating hips of these stars would strike me as being far more damaging when one considers the values we bestow upon our kids. Looking around me there were a few people scantily clad (though there was nothing near indecent exposure) and I was one of MANY who were dressed as we would ANY day in town. That of course added to the fact that there was no alcohol consumption allowed on the premises and there was also someone on stage constantly signing the words that were being spoken or sung ensured involvement of all who came to watch.

# 354

Posted: 02/07/2009 09:20

Very good post at 349. Tolerance has to begin somewhere. ALL movements foreward begin with the smallest step, regardless of the situation in question.

# 353

Posted: 02/07/2009 09:18

Buzz you know my view on the above subject there is no point in me annoying you. No matter what I say here you will repeat word for word again you will end up with the tops of your fingers very sore from typing my post over again.

Alo.

How does this even BEGIN to answer questions from either Chris or myself?? We may not know your view, but we certainly know your STYLE ie evade the questions at all costs. And no my fingertips are fine thanks to the copy/paste facility but I appreciate your concern.

# 352

Posted: 01/07/2009 22:57

Can I just say that I am very happy to have met (virtually) other people on this discussion who do not feel it necessary to adher to the sterotypical behaviour of gay people.  I won't name names but I am delighted that there are others like me - i.e normal persons who happen to be attracted to the same sex but don't feel it necessary to adopt a false persona just to fit in with with what they think society expects from them  (when in fact society would just prefer them to be themselves).  Thanks people you have given me hope. 

# 351

Posted: 01/07/2009 19:22

"Chi, I would be interested in what was behind the reference to the stress of marriage?"

Nah, I just meant things like divorce, ownership of certain things, wills and etc. etc.

We can create a new kind of partnership that shouldn't need a thing like a divorce, or at least a way to officially end a couple's relatonship without divorce making things worse.  since they bring so much stress both physically and emotionally, not to mention financially.

# 350

Posted: 01/07/2009 16:33

Hi Buzz,

No not at all.  Me and my partner were both stunned when we first heard what was planned.   It wouldn't be for us certainly but I am happy enough for them (once it makes them happy).  Even got them a nice present but chose not to attend the wedding.  That actually worked out for them as it meant they could leave the dog with us and they wouldn't have to worry.  I do think the lobbying for marriage rights is a bit much which is why I entered the sad emoticon.  I  just would like myself in the spotlight like that (if it happens).

Was thinking the same reasons re the children at the parade but would also add some of the inappropriate attire that does be on show as well.

# 349

Posted: 01/07/2009 16:20

Chris

I agree Buzz, it is rather like saying - it is wrong to admit wonmen to professionas such as civil engineering or law because male dominiance in those industries are the norm and thus the women woud only be expoised to sexual harrassment and bullying

 - yes, only if her colleagues were ignorant sexist people who were improperly socialised.

It comes down to my example again I think. If you were to substiture the word, homosexual for black, rural, blond or short, would the same circumstnaces allow for discrimination on those grounds to be acceptable

I think not.